Posts by gone for good

21

Help with article on Watchtower Changes due to Legal Pressure

by jwfacts in

at https://www.reddit.com/r/exjw/comments/8j8fj9/what_legal_requirements_have_forced_the/excircuitoverseer started an excellent thread on areas watchtower has changed due to legal pressure.

this has promoted me to gather the information into an article.

there is a number of points that i would like to expand on, and need assistance in finding information.. the article is at https://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/blog/changes-due-to-legal-pressure.php.

gone for good

Orphan Crow-

Your link looks very interesting, but pdf seems to be only available with a membership -sign in? Are you familiar with the process? Thanks

17

Interview with an Apostate : humbled : not-a-captive

by humbled in

tell us a little about yourself and your family.. born in 1952 second oldest of the family of nine children.

as you see, my family was thoroughly catholic.

dad was in the army.. were you a born in or a convert?.

When I joined this forum about 2013, your comments were highly valued as from a person of dignity, admirable compassion and deep experience. While your posts from those days certainly conveyed your kindness, and thoughtful humanity, I suggest that you "cracked the door" a few months ago when you responded to a post that offended.

In that post you set the record straight and stood your ground heroically as I recall, and I've since admired you even more ... now this !

Your interview adds to your fine personality a fascinating history - and all set down swaddled in the fine literary lilt of the Irish.

Maeve - 'tis an honour to know you lass.

13

Fading with Confidence

by gone for good in

abandoning a damaging cult is not a crime, in fact it might be viewed as a moral imperative given the levels of abuse awaiting those surrendering to its teachings and worse –its "ecclesiastic authority".. it has always seemed counter productive to inform potential enemies when your life´s goals now conflict with their rigid agendas.

disassociation letters and manifestos may be cathartic in the writing, but the outcome is a 100% certainty because of the inflexibility and lack of caring by the very group it is delivered to.. .

"fading" from under "high control" seems an oxymoronic risk at best, and currently faders walk on eggshells and look over their shoulders for years during and after the attempt - fearful that the price of their freedom will be the destruction of their friendships and family ties.. perhaps a peculiar additional preparation to a fade can reverse the balance of power – and high control cults are all about power.. .. bear in mind: - .

gone for good

Hello everyone and thanks for your responses -

Phoebe - it was your situation that caused me to raise this issue again.

I posted the topic just hours before I left on international travel, because I didn't want to lose the draft. I will further our discussion (based on your comments)

The travel I mentioned involved flight delays, missed connections and 2 FULL days and nights at big airports. I need to recover and collect my scattered wits before I respond to your...zzzzzzzzzzzzz

60

Nephew’s JW Fiancée Begins Conversion to Judaism Due to Passover Date

by Rabbi Midge in

it’s been a while since i posted, but for those who remember, i came on here to get some information about jehovah’s witnesses because i have a nephew who was getting engaged to a girl who was a jehovah’s witness and, along with some other sites, i was recommended this one.. since then we’ve been busy with passover and jehovah’s witnesses have had something they call the memorial of christ’s death (i believe i have that right).

this clashing of the two observances apparently did more for this girl than anything else i ever saw in our months of conversations with her.. respectfully, jews do not proselytize.

these are people who, of their own desire, “join the tribe” after some years of study and practice--something this girl has just begun to do.

gone for good

Welcome back RES ! -

Please hang around and try to ignore the haters.

I don´t care who you are or aren´t but you certainly carry a lively discussion from the unique position in Judaism and I for one, have questions about your community and life I would like your viewpoints on.

I´m travelling for a bit but maybe next week...

GFG

13

Fading with Confidence

by gone for good in

abandoning a damaging cult is not a crime, in fact it might be viewed as a moral imperative given the levels of abuse awaiting those surrendering to its teachings and worse –its "ecclesiastic authority".. it has always seemed counter productive to inform potential enemies when your life´s goals now conflict with their rigid agendas.

disassociation letters and manifestos may be cathartic in the writing, but the outcome is a 100% certainty because of the inflexibility and lack of caring by the very group it is delivered to.. .

"fading" from under "high control" seems an oxymoronic risk at best, and currently faders walk on eggshells and look over their shoulders for years during and after the attempt - fearful that the price of their freedom will be the destruction of their friendships and family ties.. perhaps a peculiar additional preparation to a fade can reverse the balance of power – and high control cults are all about power.. .. bear in mind: - .

gone for good

Abandoning a damaging cult is not a crime, in fact it might be viewed as a moral imperative given the levels of abuse awaiting those surrendering to its teachings and worse –its "ecclesiastic authority".

It has always seemed counter productive to inform potential enemies when your life´s goals now conflict with their rigid agendas. Disassociation letters and manifestos may be cathartic in the writing, but the outcome is a 100% certainty because of the inflexibility and lack of caring by the very group it is delivered to.

"Fading" from under "high control" seems an oxymoronic risk at best, and currently faders walk on eggshells and look over their shoulders for years during and after the attempt - fearful that the price of their freedom will be the destruction of their friendships and family ties.

Perhaps a peculiar additional preparation to a fade can reverse the balance of power – and high control cults are all about power.

.

Bear in mind: -

- that you have a legally established right to abandon any religion, any time, without coercion or interference,(or even an explanation)

- that an individuals basic Human Rights are valued and protected by law far more vigorously than any cults right to enforce conformity or persecution.

- that you may/will be subject to ecclesiastic authority as long as you willingly participate/consent to such as a condition of membership.(Shepherding book)

-that membership/participation in religion is a wholly voluntary endeavor as contrasted with a contractual obligation,(example employment by the religion). Baptism is not a contract.

- that a churches ecclesiastic authority cannot be invoked upon former members who left in good standing (ie .not leaving legitimate moral or legal issues needing to be dealt with)

.

Faders can be happy that WT lied on JUU.ORG when they asked the question “Are Former Members Shunned ? … they went straight to devious misdirection to be able to reply “…are not shunned.” The second paragraph insinuates (lies) that all who are disfellowshipped/shunned have committed wrong doing. Both paragraphs glare intellectual dishonesty.

This level of deceit suggests that WT is ashamed of the truthful answer (who wouldn´t be?), and, more importantly –so afraid of legal action or a human rights challenge that they deliberately lie about their own ecclesiastic policy.

Their policy is of course as insane as all the other Theocracies infecting the world,- that those who can no longer stomach the myriad injustices of religious hypocrites are deserving of death.

WTs trouble is that this policy is in direct opposition to human rights freedoms that have been legislated into law in many democracies. Apostasy is a cherished human right, not a crime and certainly no sin when fleeing ignorant, abusive zealots..

What has this got to do with preparing to launch a successful fade?

Imagine embarking on your fade with a trump ace up the sleeve - some legal assurance that no judicial proceedings could be forthcoming to jeopardize or penalize your liberties.

Since to fade is to risk interference from elders why not establish your own, known, eventual outcome (Freedom of religion) right at the outset and then “fade” from that position of knowledge and protection.

The danger with all fades so far, has been that you are doing it as a JW and can fully expect to be disfellowshiped if even the smallest circumstance goes wrong…

What if you had already quietly, effectively and deliberately- abandoned the entire religion before you peacefully and publicly fade to whatever level of freedom suits your situation?

What if your fade progressed from day one, as a person no longer subject to anyone´s “ecclesiastic authority”? … as a person who has already exercised their rights to freedoms of thought, association and beliefs ?... as a person already one big legal step ahead of the hounders?

The essence of Quitting Quietly as a prelude to fading is simple – write (email is better) and file a dated letter with a trusted friend (doctor, therapist, lawyer, relative, friend) - anyone who might understand the sort of damages cults insidiously inflict .

Your email will record the date, important as your letter states your position from that time forward. (Emails still available on the servers are acceptable as legal documents).

If your letter makes abundantly clear that you are through with the religion, the hierarchy, the .org, the hamster wheel etc. etc.., you are now free to attend the meetings as a non-JW !

Go ahead, sit with your family, talk with your friends, enjoy seeing the grandkids as often as you like – or skip a meeting or three, read a good book while others around you parrot WT rot,.

And of course, never stop repeating with happy conviction “ No thanks.. I´m fine, just fine…I´ll let you know (never) if I need anything.”

You can´t be Df´d because you are no longer subject to ecclesiastic authority, and because you have done absolutely nothing wrong.

Enjoy your fade,

28

advice please/data protection

by Phoebe in

jw
friends

i have just received an email from an elder's wife regarding the new data protection laws.

between the lines it sounds like she has been asked to contact me.. she says they 'don't want to leave me out' so they want me to fill out the form as 'i'm still part of the congregation'.

also, my blood card needs updating, apparently.. the elder in charge will be in contact.. obviously, i'm not doing either, but what do i do?

gone for good

Every signature the Congregation can gather, every report a member submits to them and every committee you agree to attend is evidence that you :

"... still accepts the congregations authority." from Shepherd the Flock book

61

Gerrit Lösch gives a special talk the Norval Assembly Hall in Georgetown Canada

by wannaexit in

jw
friends

the first part was all about the the evils of higher education.

i couldn't stand it and left.

was anybody there today?

gone for good

The Georgetown Assý Hall @ Norval has been peddling the same stupid shit for 40 years!

Way back then, I attended a special talk some time after Peter Gzowski had hosted a fascinating radio interview explaining the creation of a wonderful new invention - the World Wide Web !

Peters guest explained how this originally military technology was being commandeered by the world civilian citizens to link together PCs everywhere into a global communications network. I had never heard of this and it was news to CBC host Peter Gsowski likewise - it was stunning to listen to the wonders this new tech woul bring to people everywhere. I stopped working and sat on the floor to listen...WOW

Sometime later, at a convention at Georgetown a young couple was paraded out and announced how they had given up their careers in computer -tech to pioneer! I still remember the sickening feeling that these deluded young folks were making a huge mistake.

I never agreed with the WT stance against higher education - it amounted to conning young people into throwing their "pearls"(youth, education,aspirations) before "swine"( a greedy, lying cult leadership).

I´ve thought about that couple all these years and wished I had the knowledge and opportunity they threw away at the assembly hall...

16

I got my first teaching job!

by paradiseseeker in

in case you haven't read me, i am a spanish pimo who is preparing himself to become an english teacher.

well, i just wanted to share with you that i've been called to work in a high school and my first week of work has been amazing!

this job is not permanent, it will end in july, but finally i got rid of many doubts about my adequacy for this job: i love it!

gone for good

You´re on your way !

I´m nearing 70 and remember every teacher from kindergarten onward - you´ll have happy career with memories for both you and students ...

Congratulations Felicidades

8

Informing of judicial decisions - how is it accomplished in 2018?

by gone for good in

how do jws (rank and file) know when to commence shunning the victim of an internal judicial proceeding ?

what direction does the elders manual give to start the congregations participation in shunning?

when did you most recently see this process initiated in a hall you attend?.

gone for good

Thanks to one and all !

Has anyone opinions on the legality of the practice - (announcing a persons name and religion status) to what could be a random audience?

I say random because not everyone at the hall are Jws -there are children, , studies, various visitors and guests - what legal right do these people have to such personal, private details sprung upon them?

Please keep responding with your various opinions, I am going somewhere with this...

GFG

12

You might be a Jehovah's Witness if.......

by Sour Grapes in

you might be a jehovah's witness if, to not feel guilty on saturday morning, you ride in a car with a group of adults driving in circles around town taking turns to get out one at a time to knock on a door that you hoped no one would answer.. you might be a jw if going on vacation meant going to a summer regional or district assembly where you did not need to pack shorts, tennis shoes, or tank tops.

.

you might be a jw if for lunch at the summer convention you and your family ate breakfast food from the holiday inn where you are staying for the summer assembly.. you might be a jw if the first thing that you think about when waking up in the morning is that it is meeting night.. you might be a jw if you introduce a person to another jw, not by the person's name by as my bible study.. you might be a jw if you don't celebrate christmas but will take the money from your employer to not come to work so that you can celebrate it..

gone for good

... if you suddenly shun people who you claim to love - for no discernible reason.